Motorway Services Online

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User talk:Johnathan404

If you have any trouble editing the Wiki or want to ask a question, feel free to leave me a note here. Please end your message with four tildes (~~~~) to add your name and the time. Johnathan404 14:37, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

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Welcome Break Forecourts

I have recently passed Woodall services and know the Northbound services have a Welcome Break-branded forecourt and not Shell, is it alright that I've said about the forecourts without a photo of them? After checking the Welcome Break website to see about Southbound, I have noticed that other Welcome Break sites do not have Shell under the brands list, this is suggesting maybe all forecourts are now Welcome Break-branded. Also, Gretna had a BP forecourt and on the brands list is Welcome Break's 'The Deli' from their forecourts, suggesting if my previous statement is correct it may apply to BP forecourts at Welcome Break services. Is there any evidence of the rebranding? Should I look for evidence on photos to see because they would usually list the Shell or BP brand? Thank you. NOAH1 (talk) 20:16, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Yes, many Welcome Break petrol stations have now been changed over. Welcome Break won't publicise them under the current circumstances. For the time being please only change the ones you have seen. Thanks. Johnathan404 (talk) 15:56, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

Ollerton COVID-19 Update

I have updated the Ollerton page to say that 'The Big Fish' restaurant is now open for takeaway only. How can the page be changed to say that it was updated today. Thank you. NOAH1 (talk) 06:28, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

Thank you. It can be done with Template:Coronavirus, but there is no need to use it. Be wary that using that template effectively creates a guarantee to keep the page updated with any developments. Johnathan404 (talk) 12:10, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

Grand Dale Little Chef

I have recently passed the shell filling station at Grand Dale. There was an abandoned Little Chef - style building with a signpost housing the Travelodge logo. Do you know of evidence about if this was a Little Chef and Travelodge site at all? Thank you. NOAH1 (talk) 19:25, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

I'm not aware of any abandoned buildings at Grand Dale. You may be thinking of somewhere else.
Johnathan404 (talk) 16:53, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

Since you would know a lot more about this sort of stuff than me, I am not doubting you. However, it was the A63. I looked on the A63 page on this site to find information about this and immediately recognised the Shell filling station I had seen on a picture, albeit with no information. This one seems to be an odd one, as no site I have looked on has anything about there even being a building. There might be a Travelodge still open, and certainly some sort of building. It may have been just a police building with broken signage for all I know. However, it had a space where the old Little Chef logo could have been. I could not take a photo, as I was on the opposite side,but I was sure of something. NOAH1 (talk) 19:25, 16 September 2020 (UTC) Oddly I've just submitted that at the exact same time!

The fuel garage roof is the same shape (the design different to others) and according to Street View, there is an open Travelodge and an abandoned Little Chef, which may have been an EG casualty, as it has a recent advert with the cursive font on it. NOAH1 (talk) 19:29, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

I, and that last statement are completely wrong. Grand Dale is in fact different, and I am referring to a Shell forecourt with the same roof, and an abandoned Little Chef. What I called the advert with the cursive font, was in fact a parking bay sign from a really close distance. It had the old logo, so it might have been an R Capital closure, with the Travelodge left. This Travelodge is called South Cave. The services is a one-sided on the A63 East. Do you list this on the site? It is not signposted to my knowledge. Sorry for the mixup and thank you again for your time. After further research, this is actually West Cave, it's just both sides are apart from each other. NOAH1 (talk) 19:35, 16 September 2020 (UTC)


How do you create a map with all A road and Motorway services you've been to? I have tried just motorway, but would prefer both. And the code wouldn't come up when I pressed 'generate code' when trying to generate a code for my motorway one. Thank you. NOAH1 (talk) 19:38, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

Simply copy and paste an existing example, and change the names to the names of the places you've been to.
Johnathan404 (talk) 20:21, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

This does sound so silly, but how do you do it from a mobile. I have tried several ways. NOAH1 (talk) 20:50, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

Simply add more place names to the existing page, or replace the code with your own.
Johnathan404 (talk) 15:09, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

The Good Breakfast

On the Welcome Break website, it claims that Harry Ramsdens is available at a few of its sites, and the good breakfast is not displayed. Leicester Forest East is an example. I visited there in late August and The Good Breakfast was still there though. Thanks NOAH1 (talk) 06:06, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

Wolviston Little Chef

Do you know anywhere where I can get a photo of the Billingham branch of Little Chef please? I've found an abandoned one. NOAH1 (talk) 07:44, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

I found an image on Teeside Live, when it was abandoned. I cropped it and have uploaded it three times but I still can't upload it to the Wolviston gallery.

Newspaper photographers make their money by charging people hundreds of pounds to use their photos. That is their job. Please do not steal from them unless you are willing to pay when they ask you to. The upload form does ask you to make sure you have permission to upload. Johnathan404 (talk) 21:47, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

Okay, sorry. Is there anywhere where there is a picture of The Little Chef when it was open?

Black Cat

Apologies, I have just realised Black Cat isn't signposted. NOAH1 (talk) 20:41, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

COVID Closures

Is it thought that the food brands would close, or all, even brands like Nandos and PizzaExpress will remain open for takeaway? Thank you. NOAH1 (talk) 20:53, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

All of the COVID-19 updates that are in the public domain are summarised on the Coronavirus page. Johnathan404 (talk) 11:36, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

The Site

Can I just say this is an amazing site and without the site I would not have learnt most of the information I know about Motorway and A-Road services. I have been fully reading and editing for a year, but first discovered the site when I searched "Alfreton Services" and the site told me everything I needed to know. For instance, I never knew EG Group operated that many Starbucks, or the fate of Little Chef. Out of all sites I use, I use this one the most. Thank you. NOAH1 (talk) 21:05, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for your kind words! Johnathan404 (talk) 11:36, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

Scotch Corner WCPC

As I was scrolling through Moto's website, I saw that it says Scotch Corner has a West Cornwall Pasty Co. I do know that the website displays opening hours for each brand but not cabinet (Krispy Kreme, Costa Express) , however there are no hours, so it may be a cabinet, albeit never being seen within Moto. Is there any WCPC within Scotch Corner or is it a mistake, as I know operators websites can be least accurate. Thanks. NOAH1 (talk)

This website advises that there is a West Cornwall Pasty Co. stand at Scotch Corner, in normal trading times. Johnathan404 (talk) 17:01, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

Billingham Branch of Little Chef

Do you know of any facts or photos when in operation, of the , branch of LC at Wolviston services? Such as who closed it (Permira or during the PRG sales)? Thank you. NOAH1 (talk)

The only pictures I have are in-copyright and can't be uploaded here. It was likely a Permira closure, but others may know better than me. Johnathan404 (talk) 17:51, 19 February 2021 (UTC)


This morning I took a trip up north, and see that Carcroft seems fully open. Due to an accident, I had to take a detour on the way back and couldn't get photos of Bilbrough West (which has fully opened Starbucks) or Barnsdale Bar South. I do notice that at Bilbrough Top East when I stopped, toilets are open in the building, being shut during my visit August 2020. I saw Burger King was closed but the shutters were up, so it might be open as I visited at around 08.30. Also Sainsburys signage is still intact on the totem, and the sainsbury's neon sign inside the shuttered unit is still lit, again fully intact signage. Also, I wondered why Urban Express at Leeds Skelton Lake is not mentioned under "Shops" in the pages facilities guide. Thanks and I hope all this helps. NOAH1 (talk) 20:03, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for your updates! Rich has been working very hard on keeping the Leeds closures up to date. Johnathan404 (talk) 18:36, 15 April 2021 (UTC)


As it isn't stated, was the Welcome Break building demolished at Copdock? Thanks. NOAH1 (talk) 13:18, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

Yes it is. Johnathan404 (talk) 16:33, 27 July 2021 (UTC)


John, Should the Mitchell and Butler pubs (Toby Carvery, Harvester) be in the operated section as "pub-restaurant operated by Mitchell and Butlers" like it is for Whitbread pubs instead of listing the brand? Thanks NOAH1 (talk) 19:01, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

There is a difference between the operator and the owner. Who Harvester is owned by isn't relevant if you are trying to contact them with a lost property enquiry - you just need to know that they are the ones who are running that restaurant. So far as I can see, every Whitbread brand is listed under their brand name. I hope this helps. Johnathan404 (message wall) 22:31, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

New Services

The Happy Haddock restaurant on the A19 near Selby is signposted with the "Parking, Toilet and Restaurant" symbols from the road. Does it need to be added? Thanks John NOAH1 (talk) 12:27, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

No, that's just a lay-by with the wrong signs. Johnathan404 (message wall) 15:01, 5 August 2021 (UTC)


On the A171 near Guisborough is a Coop Petrol Site and Subway Drive Thru that is signposted from the A171. Is that on the site? The road signs say "Services" whilst the totem said either Woodhouse or Whitehouse (I can't remember which). Thanks, Noah NOAH1 (talk) 15:06, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

You're right, Woodhouse is missing! It will be added soon enough. Thanks. Johnathan404 (message wall) 15:55, 6 August 2021 (UTC)


I am working on a project that I thought I should let you know about. Using information off this website, Fandom and Google SV I am taking a survey of what percentage of former Little Chefs have been demolished and I'll post the results. NOAH1 (talk) 08:41, 11 August 2021 (UTC)


Do you know what happened to the Ashford (A30) branch and the Attenborough branch of LC? Or do you have a street view link of the plot now? Cheers! NOAH1 (talk) 10:43, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Yes, Ashford Middlesex was turned into a housing estate 10 years ago. Attenborough probably still exists, but it's hard to be sure without having any evidence. Your project, although noble, may struggle as we don't know how many branches there were, or exactly where they all were. Johnathan404 (message wall) 13:57, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

I have just found a map a few minutes ago (in the same style as other location maps) on google listing every location and whether it is something now or demolished. Thanks for your continued support! NOAH1 (talk) 16:52, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

While Ollie's map is excellent, it doesn't show every former Little Chef. New branches are often being discovered. Johnathan404 (message wall) 16:59, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

I did notice some! I am using three lists - This website's, Ollie's map and Little Chef wiki's. I'm just on Barnsdale Bar North, and have done Reading and Hyde Park as my first two before starting alphabetically. And it seems Flo's Cafe is not signed from the A1 Southbound, only with Flo's own sign, and there was cones blocking off the entry but not exit sliproad at 4:20pm today. Thanks.NOAH1 (message wall) 18:10, 15 August 2021 (UTC)


Hi John, as of 6th August 2021, after 4pm, there were no free toilets at Bilbrough East as the building now uses Greggs opening hours (6 or 7 am until 4pm) and toilets are closed after that, and the filling stations toilet was broke. Hope this helps. NOAH1 (message wall) 15:43, 16 August 2021 (UTC)


I preferred Highways England! NOAH1 (message wall) 16:43, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

LC Map

Thanks very much John! NOAH1 (message wall) 07:45, 20 August 2021 (UTC)


Hi John, apologies for the constant questions but was the Domino's at Leigh Delamere order on the app only and they bring it out with there being no service counter? Also I'll be stopping at a few places next weekend and might try the new Ben and Jerry's at Oxford! Thank you. NOAH1 (message wall ) 18:56, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

I am sure there would have been an order point. Johnathan404 (message wall) 11:20, 22 August 2021 (UTC)


On the road as you exit Portland Retail Park in Mansfield, the Burger King and former Frankie and Bennys are signposted as "Services". I assume that's a mistake, but is it a mistake or is it an actual signposted services? Thanks for your time again! NOAH1 (message wall) 11:41, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

It is actually signposted as "Services" as you well say, but it doesn't meet any of the rules outlined in MSO:Criteria. Johnathan404 (message wall) 11:20, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for that. Highways England 🙄🙄, sorry "National Highways! NOAH1 (message wall ) 14:01, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

Prezzybox Template

Hi, I was recently visiting Strensham services southbound, and I noticed that on this site, there was no Prezzybox page. I created a basic page, and was working on the map, when I found out I had to create a template and I was told that you must be informed of any new templates. Therefore, I'd like to create Template:Prezzybox, in order to create this map. Although I've uploaded before, this is my first template creation, and I would be very grateful for any tips. Thanks! NORTHPOLARIS (talk) 13:28, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for your message. I have no objection to the template in principle, but I don't understand what the benefit would be. We receive virtually zero queries about Prezzybox and a search for Prezzybox will just take you to Strensham anyway.
Brands which have only had a relationship with one MSA are best documented on that MSA's page. Johnathan404 (message wall) 18:31, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
Thanks, anyway!

NORTHPOLARIS (talk) 18:47, 25 August 2021 (UTC)


Hi John, sorry to bother you. Can you tell me how to insert a table of the services I've visited into both my user and map pages please?

Also I have pictures of Appleby Magna, Tamworth, Oxford and Cherwell Valley to upload!

Thanks NOAH1 (message wall ) 16:15, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Template:User map is able to generate its own list of services visited. Just set variable 2 to "yes", as in |2=yes }}
If you want to create your own more detailed table, the website will accept either Wikicode or HTML. The classic editor has a code generator under "advanced" > "insert" > "table". The visual editor will have an option too. Johnathan404 (message wall) 10:15, 30 August 2021 (UTC)


I am a local and after talking to other locals, it seems the cafe has closed down, and has not been open since October 2020. I have been told it is being used as a house but am not sure of that being true. Google Maps adds it is closed, and after passing it multiple times between 8am and 3pm, I can confirm it hasn't been open then. There are cones blocking the entry sliproad, but not the exit sliproad, presumably due to the property behind it. NOAH1 (message wall) 18:01, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

Apologies John, I've seen the facebook posts on the cafe page. However it has looked closed the past two months, whether the A1 Southbound Blyth sliproad update has caused a drop in trade? Thanks.NOAH1 (message wall) 18:25, 1 September 2021 (UTC)


I'm back on the Little Chef project, no hiccups! Was the Casablanca, Zaragoza branch demolished? I tried using Google street view Espana but struggled to find evidence of the building. Thanks John! NOAH1 (message wall) 17:05, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

This one was demolished, it's one of the few foreign ones I have information on. Johnathan404 (message wall) 17:36, 9 September 2021 (UTC)


Hi, what did both LC's at Corley become please?

And after just reading the "all the service stations" category, the visiting all former Little Chefs seems interesting, as I was actually going to plan a visit on a map to all the sites (not to take, just out of interest) NOAH1 (message wall) 21:52, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

I don't know what the Corley sites became. In fact in the case of most branches that are inside other buildings, I don't know which unit the Little Chef occupied. You might be able to use the photos under Corley to work some of it out. Johnathan404 (message wall) 19:07, 13 September 2021 (UTC)


I have counted rebuilt branches as two seperate branches, and my end result was less than I thought. I had 21 % as the result (20.85 accurately). Thanks for all the help John! NOAH1 (message wall) 06:32, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Edits and Checkups

Good afternoon, thanks for tidying up my edits. I shall be travelling back from Gatwick on Thursday but don't know which route, if there is an MSA you need me to check something on, let me know. Thanks NOAH1 (message wall) 12:52, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

Stop wherever you like, have a good trip. Johnathan404 (message wall) 19:59, 19 October 2021 (UTC)


John, I have created a page for Asda On the Move, since many more shops are being rebranded. There is one thing I need help with, and that is setting the colour for the banner so that the text doesn't disappear. Thank you for your time. Noah. NOAH1 (message wall) 14:50, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

Thank you, I will look at this later. Johnathan404 (message wall) 09:37, 29 November 2021 (UTC)


Hi there, I note you undid my edit and am somewhat confused about the reasoning for doing so, as I am of the belief that what I put down was correct. The A92 does not end at the roundabout at which the services were located, it continues up to the Halbeath Junction and is signed and as such. This small section has signage for the services on the eastbound side, identical to the one on the westbound sliproad,As Google Street View shows. Either it should be considered signed from both sides, or not at all as there is nothing on the main dual carriageways. Thanks, Viperinelight50 (talk) 00:06, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

It was the original text that was misleading. As you say, it's not properly signed in any direction. Johnathan404 (message wall) 09:38, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

Bankhead Services

Hi, I've read the info regarding criteria and I'm pretty sure that this site warrants a page, but wanted to check beforehand. It is signed from both sides of the A92 and the Bankhead roundabout, and has a BP Garage with M&S, a McDonalds Drive Thru and an independent Chinese restaurant. I live local so I can very easily get photos of the site if needed. Thanks, Viperinelight50 (talk) 17:48, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

Yes it is, good find! I'll sort it out later. Johnathan404 (message wall) 19:06, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

LFE Video

Evening, I found a video on YouTube by Dyson replacing the dryers at LFE but one of the employees referred to it as “the biggest service station across the motorway network”. Whilst it’s not the sort of content to go on the page, it might be worthy of noting elsewhere. Many Thanks!

(The link I added doesn’t seem to work as the web address for YouTube has changed I believe) NOAH1 (message wall) 19:46, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for sharing this! Johnathan404 (message wall) 09:43, 12 April 2022 (UTC)


Morning John, I have just passed Spital and they have signs for a new truckstop in place without any branding. I didn’t get a photo as I was travelling Northbound but there was no opening date on the sign. Thanks. NOAH1 (message wall) 04:34, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

Spital 2

I have re-driven past and taken an image so will edit the page. NOAH1 (message wall) 19:58, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

Markham Moor Northbound

Good afternoon John, I have stopped at Markham Moor Northbound and I have realised it shouldn’t be advertised as a service station because of the lack of free toilets. The Shell garage has a sign on the door stating “Shell and Little Waitrose Customers Only” and both KFC and Subway have code locks on their toilet doors. I have no images but I’ll attempt to return before September and get some photos. Thanks NOAH1 (message wall) 11:57, 22 July 2022 (UTC)

Yes, that happens at a few places on the A1, and National Highways ought to crack down on it. Johnathan404 (message wall) 16:33, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

Newly signed services in Kent

Hello John, as a Kent local I am excited to propose you a new addition for this website even though it's been very overdue on my part.

North of Dover, there is a town further up called Sandwich (yes, really) supplied by the A2 road. At Richborough on the top of the town, there has always been a pair of petrol stations + a Subway which obviously don't merit a service status on their own, however a new KFC restaurant has joined the premises since the last Christmas. This has resulted in new service signs being put up on the road - I have uploaded all the material for you. I'll wait for your approval of course, but by all means create the page for it and as a local I'll add some plenty of info into the background of that place the next day if I can.

As for the actual name, this will be up to you. The Esso garage run by Rontec call it 'Richborough' (the precise name of the area), but the new KFC simply call it by the main town name of 'Sandwich'. Lemme know --MMA (talk) 21:58, 26 July 2022 (UTC)

(P.S. just to clear up, the Esso and KFC images are posted on Google Maps as 'Moj fever', that is me. As for the car wash photo, that is on Flickr by my personal car wash photography account of 'Wash n' drive'. Why do I even have that is another story, lol).

Thanks for this, it definitely counts! Sound the klaxon and call The Services King, I'm sure he won't want to miss out on it! Johnathan404 (message wall) 22:13, 26 July 2022 (UTC)

Sheffield Parkway

This evening, to add to my list, I stumbled across Sheffield Parkway, looking for hand-washing facilities. As I ran through the empty forecourt, my attention turned to a sign We Do not have a Public Toilet. Sorry for any Inconvenience. I doubted the Travelodge would let me in, so left. Thats the second services I have visited with signposted toilets that do not have any publicly-accessible/publicly-available toilets, the other being Markham Moor Northbound. Good Job it won't be around for much longer! NOAH1 (message wall) 19:02, 7 October 2022 (UTC)


Hiya John The petrol garage at Morrisons Balby Doncaster is advertised as a services and meets every requirement as far as I can see, it also has HGV forecourt and the nearby hotel and pub is also advertised on the services sign, it’s signed from the nearby A-Road. Thanks NOAH1 (message wall) 11:59, 26 February 2023 (GMT)

Thanks Noah. So far as I can see, there are no advance signs on the A6182, it's just "a generic description of a facility". I can't see much argument in favour of adding it. Brookfield putting up their own symbols doesn't count! Johnathan404 (message wall) 10:26, 27 February 2023 (GMT)


Hiya John, a new-build McDonald’s and MFG BP/Budgens, with a building that looks like an unfinished or mothballed Costa Drive Thru, as well as a truck park, is signed as a services. It’s near Thirsk, and McDonald’s calls it “Oakfield Truck Park”. NOAH1 (message wall) 18:56, 3 September 2023 (BST)

They've certainly been creative about the rules there. Good spot! Johnathan404 (message wall) 19:38, 3 September 2023 (BST)